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Forum > General Discussion > [douchbag tactic] Whole team false-start to begin a power jam

  1. Here's a (douchbag) tactic I think might work:

    It's the start of your power jam and you've got the majority of your power jam left. You give the Pivot panty to a blocker (let's call them Green #4) with a clean slate, and take the back line with your 4 blockers. Every blocker false-starts by standing on the line.

    Whistle!

    Every blocker on your team has false-started and is thus a lap ahead. There can not be a pack. Penalty goes to the Pivot as per 6.13.37 (the rule which is pretty specific to this very instance).

    Simultaneous ref calls:

    "No Pack!"
    "Green #1 False start"
    "Green #2 False start"
    "Green #3 False start"
    "Green #4 Illegal Procedure Major"

    Your Jammer can not be touched by the opponents or it'll be Out of Play penalties for them. All your blocker skate off clockwise to avoid their False-start penalties becoming Majors.

    You lose a Pivot to the bin, chances are opponents get a skater in the bin for OOP, plus be confused as hell.

    If the opponents also just stand their being confused, there's a chance they'll get a failure to reform.

    One case of a "worth it" penalty? If it wasn't such a dick move.

  2. You could have all 4 blockers line up behind the jammers and have the same effect with a longer "no pack" time. WFTDA confirmed to me that "yielding skaters" cannot be called for out of play or failure to reform/return.

  3. Who would the blockers be yielding to?

  4. Green #1, 2, & 3 would have to yield to the blockers on the other team. aka they cannot skate forward until they are passed.

  5. By having green 1,2,3 & 4 line up behind the jammers, it would take longer for the other team to reform the pack, allowing the jammer to skate longer untouched.

  6. If you stand on the line, after the jammers pass you, your yield is complete (maybe 10 seconds)and you must then join the pack.

    If you stand behind the jammers the "yield" would take longer and thus take longer to reform.

    I'm assuming that yeilding must be to all skaters behind the offending skater.

  7. Jammers included.

  8. If you're a Blocker false starting by being behind the Jam line, you can't yield as you're effectively a lap ahead. Instead you must either stand still and wait for the pack to catch up, or skate clockwise to rejoin. Meaning it'll take even longer!

  9. In other words, skaters can be anywhere on the track that isn't between the pivot and jammer line to do this strategy.

  10. You want it to take longer....the longer there is a no pack, the longer your jammer can accrue points untouched.

  11. I'm not entirely sure that false starting blockers are a lap ahead, because if they were they would not be able to enter the EZ from the rear, which I see them do, which means they are not a lap ahead. At least thats how I see it.

  12. When I see a false start called on a blocker on the jam line, they freeze, then join the pack from the rear after the yield. If they were a lap ahead, they would not be able to do this.

  13. Related rule: "6.13.22 - A false start by a Jammer or Blocker who does not yield advantage. The Jammer or Blocker who committed the false start must stop all forward motion until the opposing Jammer or Blocker(s) takes the lead by passing the false-starting Blocker or Jammer."

    For blockers at the start of the jam, the lap starts and ends at the jam line. So, they have to wait their until an opposing blocker has taken a lead. Hence most blockers when they false start skate clockwise & passed one opposing blocker, to yield.

    If a false starting blocker is warned, then skates even a fraction forwards before an opposing blocker has passed them, that's a Major IP. If Blockers and standing there for a few seconds, then carrying on skating forwards, the refs should be issuing IP Majors.

    This gets fun for this tactic, because if everyone on a team false-starts, everyone on the team can then suddenly skate off in the clockwise direction.

  14. Looks like your right. Didn't know the jam line put you ahead of the pack. I retract all of my suggestions! :)

    When you say "skate off" I'm assuming you mean on the track, because if it is off you are still subject to skating out of bounds even while yielding and going clockwise.

  15. I mean't clockwise, reverse direction. If everyone skated off the track, that'd be a whole other tactic!

  16. I have been pondering this for a couple of days. We have our very first bout coming up next sat, but many of our girls have been skating derby for several years. This would not only confuse the other team, but our refs wouldn't know how to handle it either. What would be my best option for making sure the refs know how to call the "yield" if we start behind our own jammer?

    By "yielding" will our pivot be penalized for a false start? Would everyone be penalized?

    Also, if we are "yielding" would we be required to skate clockwise to "reform the pack"? Or, is it legal for us to stand there and make them come to us?

    If we are required to "reform the pack" from the front (by skating clockwise) do we have to do it quickly, or will a snail pace be sufficient?

    I like this tactic! Letís see if we can pull it off!

    Cheat To Win!
    Cheat To Win!
    Cheat To Win!

  17. Bring it up in the Captain's meeting at the start of the game as a hypothetical. In the past I know some teams (or so the rumour mill goes) would message each ref individually to ask how they would call a tactic they want to use. Sneaky, and avoided the their team hearing about it before they did it.

    Anyone who false starts, false starts. Previously a Minor, now a NI/NP.

    The Pack Speed is never established, so by standing still you could be seen to be failing to reform (which is a Major) as you're not actively decreasing the distance between you and the other team.

    Though, some head refs would likely just whistle the jam dead as soon as they realise everyone false started. Ref's first job is to keep the game safe, second job to keep it fair ;)

  18. Thanks for the tips! What else you got? ;)

  19. So... Three days till bout day... I have been going through all the scenarios, and rules, and here's what I came up with:

    Rules:
    6.13.36 - Skaters who begin in an intentionally taken starting position which purposefully prolongs that skaterís ability to return to an in-play position or a teamís ability to reform a pack (e.g., intentionally starting on oneís back, intentionally starting in a dog-pile), as this represents an intentional and immediate prolonged failure to rejoin/failure to reform. One penalty will be applied to a single skater per team, if applicable, who seems most responsible or the Pivot (further penalties should be assessed as laid out by rules 6.10.12 and 6.10.16).

    6.10.12 - A skater who, after being warned, does not immediately attempt to re-enter the Engagement Zone. A major penalty must be applied to each offending Blocker who does not attempt to return to the Engagement Zone.

    6.10.16 - No pack: After a warning, a sustained failure to reform a pack will result in a major penalty. This penalty includes a sustained failure to reform a pack by returning to in bounds from out of bounds. One penalty will be applied to a single skater per team, if applicable, who seems most responsible, or the Pivot (see Section 7.1.4).

    Scenario 1:
    If the blockers all line up touching the Jam line during their own power jam, and they all yield advantage to their own jammer, it is self defeating since you would always yield to your own jammer anyway, but since you cant make any forward motion, you also can't block opposing blockers for her.

    If however, scenario 2, you position your blocker wall in front of the opposing blockers and encroach (legally) on them, they will be more likely to false start without being aware of it and will have to yield to your jammer or take the penalty.

    Now, scenario 3, starting with all of your blockers behind your jammer in your own power play: you sacrifice your pivot to the bin. Once the "No Pack" is called penalties will be given out if there is a "sustained failure to reform". So,since the blockers are "a lap ahead" of the pack, they would need to quickly skate clockwise on the track to reform or penalties will be called for "failure to reform". Each skater who doesn't immediately start skating "back to the pack" will get penalized. If they do go back right away, but the refs think it takes to long, only the most responsible person will be penalized.


    Essentially, the lineup would need to know exactly what is going on, and going over the rules with the refs at the beginning of the bout will be important so that it gives them the opportunity to process what just happened. I hope!

  20. I have asked wftda, they said you can NOT be called for out of play until your yield is complete.

    Also all of the leagues in my area are allowing players that false start on the jam line to enter the EZ from the rear and not the front like you and wftda has told me to do.

  21. Remember 'Cheat' Jammers only have to yield to jammers and blockers only have to yield to at least one pack member.

    If you are a blocker your yield would be complete when one pack member on the other team passes you.

  22. Just re-read your scenario 2 Cheat, I think if you force an opponent over the Jam line so they false start, that's the same as gently nudging them off-track; a Blocking before the whistle IP Major, as they've lost established position. Also, what LaredoHK said.

  23. LaredoHK, you said "...you can NOT be called for out of play until your yield is complete." Does this mean an out of play penalty must be called, or are you referring to possible separate infractions?

  24. Out of play cannot be called on a skater who is yielding properly. Properly would be waiting, or skating backwards. If the yielding skater is outside of the Engagement Zone, they cannot be called for outofplay until their false start yield is complete (when one pack member passes them).

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